Nov 17
11:26 PM
GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit Keynote
Two Thursdays ago I had the privilege of delivering the keynote at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008 (introduced by the mayor of Seattle, no less!). Below is more or less what I said, or what I intended to say, since I wrote most of this before the presentation. Thank you to Ben London and Michael Stephens for hosting me, and everyone who came to see my presentation.
[While I have your attention, I want to remind you to come visit us in SF on Tuesday night, November 18th.]
Hello everyone.
Thanks sincerely for asking me to come speak to you today. It’s an honor to have been asked to kick off this conference. I’ll only take a few minutes of your time, leave some time to ask questions, then you have an incredible two days of discussion on the future of the music business. It’s been quite a week and clearly Change is in the air, and not just in the music industry.
My name is Ian Rogers. I started collecting records when I was five years old. When I was in high school, my dream was to study recording engineering at Full Sail for 13 months and produce records for a living. Then my high school girlfriend got pregnant and I thought a four-year degree might help keep me out of the trailer park, which is how I ended up studying computer science at Indiana University. In 1989 I sold my TV partially because I was broke and partially because I was just more interested in music. I haven’t watched much TV since. I don’t really watch movies. I read Mojo cover-to-cover each month, prefer to have music playing at all times, and still wish I had more time for more music.
I dropped out of grad school in 1995 to go on tour with Beastie Boys, was the Webmaster at Nullsoft running Winamp.com and SHOUTcast.com, sold a company called Mediacode to Yahoo! Music in 2003, headed Yahoo! Music in 2007, and in April left to join a startup called Topspin, founded by Digidesign’s founder Peter Gotcher and Musicmatch alum Shamal Ranasinghe. Topspin’s charter is to be for digital marketing what ProTools was for digital production, a democratizing software toolset.
I realized a long time ago that I’m stuck with music. It’s not like I’m going to change jobs tomorrow and take on video like iTunes did or suddenly get into the video games business. To be honest I wouldn’t be any good at it. Yahoo! tried to put me in charge of Yahoo! Video and I was professional about it, but anyone who knows me would tell you I just didn’t have the same passion for it. Music is my life and digital music is the only game I know professionally.
So it’s truly an honor to be asked by The Recording Academy to speak to you all today. Two years ago when I joined The Academy I was humbled. I’ve worked on the periphery of the music industry for fifteen years, building little music Web pages before there were even Web browsers for Windows or Mac, before Adam Curry’s MTV.com even, when there were just a couple of us who thought the WWW was a better Gopher. So to have finally merged lanes with the recording industry career-wise was a meaningful moment for me, regardless of the backdrop.
The backdrop, of course, is one we know well, a story we’ve heard ad nauseum at this point. Physical sales are decreasing (~20% Y/Y). The “two hit songs for $17 at Best Buy” business is over. Digital sales are increasing (~40% Y/Y) but it’s not making up the difference. Not only is digital not making up for physical sales, as the tracks are unbundled and the model is a singles-driven iTunes business, the actual value of a unit of music continues to plummet.
That said it’s with great respect and with the belief that I’m as big a lover of music as anyone in this room I admit to you:
I don’t care.
The lamenting we read in the press is not the story of the new music business. Continuing to talk about the health of the music industry on these terms is as if we’d all been crying about the dying cassette business in 1995. The difference is that when we moved from cassette to CD the winners were the same (big companies who owned access to cash, distribution, and marketing) and the definition of winning was the same (more units sold for these big companies).
As I’ve been saying for years, the physics of the media space have changed and you shouldn’t expect the winners or even the definition of winning to stay constant, so simply looking at how iTunes replaces CDs doesn’t tell the entire story.
As Chuck D said at MIDEM last year, “There is nothing wrong with the music business, there is a problem with the CD business.”
Music consumption isn’t declining: iPod sales up 59% Y/Y (source: Apple), P2P filesharing volume up 35% Y/Y(source: NPD), audio streaming up 25% Y/Y (source: Accustream). And despite the endless discussions about the “pirates,” there isn’t an unwillingness to pay for music, either: 1.6B decisions to buy music in 2007, up from 1.3B in 2006 (source: Neilsen Soundscan), 40% Y/Y increase in worldwide digital music sales (source: IFPI), 8% Y/Y increase in North American concert revenue — an all-time high (source: Forbes.com), 40% paid an average of $5 in Radiohead’s pay-what-you-want model, Nine Inch Nails self-release generates $1.6M in first week sales, includes sell out of $300 box set in first 48 hours (source: NIN.com).
As you spend the next two days discussing the future of the music business, I’d like to challenge you to consider a different perspective, IMHO the only perspectives that matter, that of the artist and the fan. I see news about the health of the music industry as defined by the stock price of WMG or quarterly earnings of UMG, Sony, and EMI every day. What I don’t see, apart from a few articles on Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails, is an update on how the world is changing from the artist point of view. But I tell you, when I talk to managers and artists they feel it, they feel an ability to take their careers into their own hands, to redefine what success means for them, and that is the emergence of the new music business.
I say this with all respect to our friends in the existing music business. We all know smart people who are busting their asses trying to solve the Innovator’s Dilemma those companies are facing. I’m sure Lyor would love for us to stop focusing on WMG’s stock price and start talking about the artists again.
Today I’d like to tell you a couple stories you haven’t heard yet about how the Internet can help connect artists and fans in a meaningful value exchange, point to a tipping point in the relationship between artists and their partners, and ask you to stop dwelling on past news and start re-framing the conversation around the question of marginal profitability for artists and value to fans. In doing so, I believe we’ll find the path forward.
In August Topspin had the honor of helping to release an album by David Byrne and Brian Eno. We started by just gathering email addresses of fans, then offered a free track in exchange for an email address, then offered the album free for streaming from any page on the Web along with three options to purchase: digital download, digital download + CD, and digital download + boxed set.
At the beginning of the run we asked manager David Whitehead how he would be judging success. David told us the number he expected to be offered as an advance on the album from a record label. Gross revenues on the project reached that number on the fiftieth (50th) day via Topspin alone, and the album went to iTunes, Amazon, etc on day sixty and is headed to physical release approximately ninety days in (next week). Because there were $9, $13, and $70 price points, the average purchase amount per fan was many times greater than the ever-declining industry average. Digital sales don’t make up for physical? From the artist perspective they certainly can, and quickly. David and Brian keep the majority of the profits, and (via Topspin at least) are paid within sixty days of the fan purchasing (no wait for recoupment and complex royalty accounting). When your costs are low your royalty rate high and your channel direct, the marginal profitability from the artist perspective can be far different than in the old model, to be sure.
Now I know exactly what you’re thinking, because Ted Mico said it for you when we were on stage together at the Digital Media Forum West last month: “This is great for established artists who have the benefit of previous years of marketing spend from the majors, but what’s the model for emerging artists?” While there’s no question the scale of success available might be different for artists with established fan bases, there is plenty of evidence that the new model can work for brand new artists, too.
How many of you have heard of an artist called Joe Purdy? Joe is in his late 20s and has already recorded and released 10 albums, selling more than 650,000 singles on iTunes thus far. He made more last year than I make as the CEO of Topspin (as it should be) and he bought himself a house. He’s selling more music to fewer fans and earning a living from his art. He might not be on the cover of Rolling Stone or a household name, but personally I consider him a successful artist, I know his manager does as well, and I hope Joe thinks of himself that way, too.
We’ve talked about Jubilee before, since they were the very first band to release their music via Topspin and are close personal friends to many of us. I’m not going to lie to you, Jubilee are not exactly flush with cash. But they have been very outspoken about how Topspin has helped them remain independent and keep the lights on while they finish their (amazing) forthcoming album. When they only had four completed songs they started selling a year’s worth of music for $20 and incredibly enough 60+% of all purchasers spent $20! From a band that only had four songs!
There’s a lot more that could be said about how artists find success in this new world and we’ll cover this topic in more detail in the months that come on this blog (including a post I’ve been meaning to write on how Seth Godin’s “Tribes” plays in — both Joe and Jubilee are integral parts of the Hotel Cafe and Buddyhead Tribes, respectively), but fundamentally I believe the model is shifting from mass-marketed (via radio and TV) and one-size-fits-all (one $15 CD suits fans of all levels of commitment) to a target-marketed approach where fans can self-select where they fit on the scale (when Trent offered Ghosts at five price points he was really asking, “How big a fan are you?”). And where the mass-marketed approach was low-margin from the artist perspective, the target-marketed approach can be much higher margin (which is how Joe Purdy buys a house on his iTunes sales). Topspin believes there is an entire middle class of artists for whom the system hasn’t worked in the past who will be empowered by this new model. We think there are a lot of Joe Purdys and Jubilees out there, and no, we don’t think they’ll ever end up playing the Staples Center, and we don’t care. We are more interested with seeing marginal profitability for more artists and satisfaction for more music fans increase.
As such, it’s hard to deny there’s a power shift going on from label to artist, and therefore the artist’s closest business partner, the artist manager. This isn’t to say labels aren’t valuable. A lot of people like to line this debate up as label vs. independent, but that’s not how I see things. What I see happening is artists having a choice, and labels needing to prove their value. It’s no longer the de facto dream of every musician to “get signed”. Instead of doing a 360 deal with a label artists are able to do a 360 deal with themselves and choose their business partners based on who is going to add the most value. If you’re an unknown pop-punk band from Orange County would you benefit from the marketing and branding help Epitaph Records could provide? Hell yeah. If you’re Joe Purdy would you benefit from what a major label adds? Perhaps, but what would you give up in the process? Artists now have some leverage in their ability to earn a living without making the leap.
Again, there are only two players in the music business that matter at the end of the day: the artists and the fans. The rest of us either add value or get in the way. Don’t get me wrong, over the years labels have added a tremendous amount of value through financing, A&R, marketing, promotion, etc. I’m just saying that every player needs to either understand how it truly adds value or it needs to get out of the way, Topspin included. Our business does not operate on lock-in, ownership of copywritten work, or long-term contracts. We either add value today with a compelling service or we die. And I’m perfectly happy with that.
The Featured Artist Coalition, which appeared on the scene last month, is a good example of this power shift in action. Artists as varied as Radiohead and Iron Maiden have signed up to a few basic principles. They aren’t outlandish, they’re really simply anti-exploitative: artists should own their copyrights and participate in how they’re exploited and accounting should be transparent. Twenty-five or even ten years ago artists signing on to a manifesto such as this would have been laughable. I’m sure some of you are snickering today. But the fact that this is happening at all, backed by major managers, is a sign of palpable change.
Personally, I would welcome Featured Artist Coalition to come to Topspin and take a look at our artist agreements. I’d love for them to take a look at how we pay and account. In return I would like their good housekeeping seal of approval right here on my Web site: here is a company that operates in accordance with our charter. How would your company stand up to such a test? If you think they would fail, how do you feel about that? I know how I felt when Yahoo! (where I worked) turned in a Chinese dissident and Jason Calacanis called us out on it at BarCamp. I’ll leave it at that.
Thanks very much for your time and attention today. I hope this has been at least mildly thought-provoking. As you hear the various panels and discussions over the next couple of days, I sincerely hope you’ll think about the music industry not as what it was, but what it will be. I hope you’ll focus on the two parts of the value chain that matter most, the artist and the fan, and that you’ll judge the success of the music “business” on the metric of marginal profitability of artists and the ability of artists to earn a living, not the ability for the rest of us to build businesses around music. It’s up to us to provide value to the music business, not up to the business to provide value to us.
Thanks sincerely,
ian c rogers
Topspin
November 17th, 2008 at 11:53 PM
Hi Ian,
This presentation absolutely rocked. Spot on.
…Steve>>>
November 18th, 2008 at 1:17 AM
As an artist who not only spent every last dime I had but also accrued an enormous credit card debt putting an album out and touring on it a few years ago, and who in so doing lost all faith in the promise of being able to continue to make music in way that wasn’t ridiculously unbalanced financially, I am happy to say that this speech is hugely encouraging! I’ve been working on new material but with a level of reserve that reflects my disdain for the previous music business model and how generally screwed us little guys were, and just as a result of this one address, I can say I am inspired to actually finish some of these tracks, knowing there’s a way to get them out to my fans that won’t kill me. Thank you!
November 18th, 2008 at 3:56 AM
[...] Je viens de découvrir cette présentation remarquable de Ian Rogers de TopSpin (qui avait été chez Winamp avant et a dirigé Yahoo Music…), une société spécialisée dans les services aux artistes et à leur developpement via le web fait lors de la dernière conférence Grammy MusicTech. Vous la trouverez ci dessous en diaporama mais je vous invite à lire en détail la transcription qui en est faite ici [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 7:42 AM
Ian,
Thanks for the shout-out and for recommending The Innovators Solution. I thoroughly enjoyed it’s predecessor The Innovators Dilemma http://tinyurl.com/5akar3
- Brett Gurewitz
November 18th, 2008 at 8:00 AM
Bravo! I love your vision. I think this kind of positive motivation helps artist and indie labels alike. Passing it on to friends now!
November 18th, 2008 at 8:33 AM
Very well presented. When will musicians take the example of Joe Purdy and stop getting sucked into the traditional business method that clearly has never given them the top platform anyway?
Thanks for posting this.
November 18th, 2008 at 8:43 AM
[...] gave a speech to music insiders recently, and while this isn’t necessarily a transcript of the actual speech, it is his planned [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 9:18 AM
So suing your fans is a bad idea?
November 18th, 2008 at 9:23 AM
[...] it here. The backdrop, of course, is one we know well, a story we’ve heard ad nauseum at this point. [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 9:26 AM
[...] Law professor fires back at song-swapping lawsuits (AP) Why I Copyfight (Locus Magazine) GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit Keynote (Topspin) Membership without obligations (Buckman’s magnatune [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I can’t imaging this will make any more of an impact than any other brilliantly presented argument, to those in the industry who are clinging so desperately to the old model. But it is a fantastically well made point. Lets just hope…
November 18th, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Ian,
You’re speaking the TRUTH, and I love it! I’ve been maintaining for a while now that there’s never been a better time to be in the MUSIC BUSINESS. More consumption than ever before = More fans (active OR passive) than ever before = Greater Opportunities!!
The toughest part for artists these days is sifting through all the noise. As a manager of an awesome edgy rock band, The Minor Kings, out of Nashville, TN, I tell them to get creative outside of just the art. We have to develop a creative strategy for getting the word out without a label involved. Considering there are so many great resources at our disposable, we can have fun with the process along the way. The internet provides so much value for artists, but they must locate those tools and use them to their advantage.
I echo Mark sentiments above, and I want to thank you so much for being such a positive influence on the music community. I’m stuck on the opposite side of the country, and unfortunately had to miss the conference. I would have loved to hear you speak, and introduce myself at some point. Hopefully, that day is not too far off. Until then, I send me best wishes from Athens, GA!
-Adam Wexler
November 18th, 2008 at 11:11 AM
Great presentation! I’m going to share it with my technology strategy students when we discuss music publishing.
November 18th, 2008 at 12:04 PM
[...] I see some differences from his situation to that of the publishing industry, but I see a lot of parallels too. In that light, I share his latest blog post from a keynote he gave in Seattle. [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 12:29 PM
Brilliant stuff as always man, thanks for posting it!
S
November 18th, 2008 at 12:50 PM
a friend of mine sent me the link to this blog, just a few hours ago, and i started reading it without knowing what was it about at all.
and i must say i became more and more interested in it as i kept going, even not being an artist or a part of the music business. but i am definitely part of the music world. in better words, i am a FAN.
so, from where i stand, i congratulate you guys for putting out there your valuable vision. everything evolves and so must each of us, on our way of thinking and doing things. i totally support music and the artists/bands i love, no matter how they hand their music as i enjoy it as a very important part in my life.
so i think your point of view is honest, smart and encouraging for many. and also, very open-minded. i like that.
just wanted to say this and wish everyone working on and for this wonderful and necessary art every luck.
sabrina, buenos aires, argentina
November 18th, 2008 at 1:14 PM
[...] music” argument. His larger case, which of course includes a role for Topspin, can be found here. Or if you just like slides, [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 2:42 PM
great speech ian, it’s what every emerging has wanted to hear for a long time…it seems more and more people in positions of power are starting to agree with you. well done!
adam coe, toronto, ontario
November 18th, 2008 at 2:57 PM
Brilliant manipulation of statistics. Karl Rove’s got work
for you if Topspin doesn’t work out. A 36% yearly increase in
peer to peer file sharing is absolutely frightening.
53 million iPods sold in 2007, and 1.6 billion downloads.
That’s 30 paid downloads per iPod, at best. Hmm, most iPods have
thousands of songs on them. That’s a lot of free music. It sure ain’t coming from CD sales.
Unless you’re already huge from the era of people paying for
music, an American Idol or Youtube phenomenon, or a statistical
anomaly, you’re going to have to keep your day job.
In the good old days the labels ripped off the artist. Now it’s the fans. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
But all the optimism for the fresh faced new artist is quite misleading, as are your success story examples. Let’s interview winners of the lottery on their strategy for picking numbers, and which 7-11 to buy your ticket from.
November 18th, 2008 at 3:08 PM
Really great!
November 18th, 2008 at 3:18 PM
[...] Rogers är inne på samma spår i sin presentation från Grammy Northwest MusicTech Summit. I korthet kan man säga lite vad man vill om hälsan i musikbranschen, beroende på vilken [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 4:44 PM
[...] témábavágó igen érdekes előadást ajánlok, amelyen a fentiekkel hasonló gondolatok hangzanak el, a publikum ígéretes, zenekiadók [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 5:18 PM
well said, ian. love that your reach is now slightly larger than a few geeks in LA
November 18th, 2008 at 6:13 PM
I have 1000s of CDs, and nearly all of those songs are on all of my iPod (Im on my 4th, plus the one in the missus car.)
iPods have a short shelf life — 2 3 years is good life span. Take that 53 million number and cut it in half.
November 18th, 2008 at 6:24 PM
[...] music biz friend Gene tells me that Ian Rogers is a smart guy and nice to boot. Reading his keynote, its pretty clear why gene thinks that: Music consumption isn’t declining: iPod sales up 59% Y/Y [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 6:46 PM
[...] Word To Garage Bands and Desktop Artists From Ian C. Rogers’ keynote address at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit, posted on TopSpin Media’s blog: [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 7:00 PM
[...] Topspin » GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit Keynote An inspiring presentation about the state of the music business. No, not for the labels: for the artists and fans. (tags: music) [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 11:02 PM
[...] it again. At a recent music industry conference, he told the assembled industry execs to basically stop whining about “losses” due to piracy and start making money. While I don’t entirely agree with what business models will [...]
November 18th, 2008 at 11:19 PM
Excellent article and spot on. Its high time the music labels realise that there is always a trade off between volumes and margins in any industry. The day margin preference takes over volumes, you must know that it is time to say goodbye. I wait for the day when we will be able to hear our favourite artists in India without resorting to piracy because well, someone forgot that there are fans in other countries too.
November 18th, 2008 at 11:25 PM
[...] it again. At a recent music industry conference, he told the assembled industry execs to basically stop whining about “losses” due to piracy and start making money. While I don’t entirely agree with what business models will [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 1:00 AM
[...] it again. At a recent music industry conference, he told the assembled industry execs to basically stop whining about “losses” due to piracy and start making money. While I don’t entirely agree with what business models will [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 1:01 AM
[...] tuvimos ocasión de hablar anteriormente en varias ocasiones y ahora Fundador y CEO de Topspin: Ian recoge en el blog de Topspin algunas partes de su presentación y sus comentarios al respecto, e incide en uno de los temas para mí fundamentales: la revisión de la cadena de valor del [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 1:21 AM
Love your philosophy and purpose. Thanks jbum for helping make it happen.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:38 AM
[...] address of Ian Rogers delivered at Topspin - Grammy MusiTech Summit 08 [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 4:08 AM
Selling music in a very crowded market filled with seemingly similar products is not easy. Topspin provides effective sales support. Consumers are often confused and mislead by current music offers and artist promotions. I fully support and will personally benefit from artists working independently. However mass market sales tools are not enough and when increasing numbers of artists start to email consumers it will become even more difficult to be successful or “heard”. How can a artist benefit from marketing tools including consumer research, brand positioning and marketing partnerships without compromising there music or spending tremendous sums of money? Even huge consumer goods, auto and travel industry players often get marketing very wrong despite outstanding sales channels and funding. Artists will need to find experienced marketing partners that view music as a superior media platform to TV and print advertising. Topspin offers valuable sales support but if you are not a brand like Byrne & Eno you need to develop an initial brand strategy. Unfortunately most of the best brand thinkers are not in the music industry.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:28 AM
[...] Cette présentation a été donnée lors de la dernière conférence Grammy MusicTech par Ian Rogers de TopSpin (qui avait été chez Winamp avant et a dirigé Yahoo Music…), une société spécialisée dans les services aux artistes et à leur developpement via le web. Vous la trouverez sur Flickr le diaporama mais je vous invite à lire en détail la transcription qui en est faite ici. [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 5:02 AM
[...] Topspin Media’s Ian Rogers offered the keynote speech at the recent Grammy Northwest Music Tech Summit, using the moment to declare the death of old music and the birth of a new age of connection between artist and fan. ”The physics of the media space have changed and you shouldn’t expect the winners or even the definition of winning to stay constant,” he said, as noted by Hypebot. [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 8:32 AM
Great speech. Very inspiring. I’ve pass this around to more than a few friends.
November 19th, 2008 at 9:28 AM
[...] La KeyNote de Ian Rogers au GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit. Une présentation claire et simple de l’évolution du marché de la musique sous forme d’un PPT [ENG]. A voir aussi l’article de TechCrunch.fr sur l’événement. [FR] [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 10:05 AM
[...] making a living creating and playing the music you love. Check out the text of his presentation here. You can also find out a little bit more about Topspin while you’re [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Oh the irony. I got fired as a band manager for extolling exactly these points to a fledgling band. Further irony : because I’m middle-aged and have been out of the business for years, they presume I’m also clueless about the present & future, and hopelessly out of touch. Artists - if you don’t “get it” - ask. Anyone who’s got your back witll explain it all. Transparency rules.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:15 AM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 11:30 AM
[...] private lives. Ultimately these entities (RIAA, MPAA) need to recognize that piracy is more of a market issue rather than a criminal one. People want their content at a particular price and in a particular [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Ian/Topspin;
what a great read…totally inspiring….though it is all stuff i totally know; i really dig the way it was presented…
like my friend hikari said
it’s one thing to try to fudamentally understand the problem
and
it’s another thing coming up with (both cost and impact) effective solutions!
thanks again.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:51 AM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 12:06 PM
[...] Ian Rogers recently provided an outstanding summation of the liberating potential available to people who understand the [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 12:09 PM
[...] Topspin CEO, and former boss of Yahoo Music, Ian Rogers, did his best recently to describe the future of the the music business. He says the CD business is dead, not the music industry, then outlines what needs to change. [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 2:45 PM
Nice piece.
Publishing music is a single love of the crafts people and driven my those who appreciate their applied love and gifts, should they exist. Let’s not forget what is really being asserted in your presentation; that music encapsulated two distinct areas of which the common musician could engage: live and recorded. Now there are emulsion layers that allow a shift from the industry being elitist (labels). Show me an artist who needed $4MM to produce an album in the last 30 years, unless you were using Mutt ?
I welcome the change; however, I agree with the point referring to controlling the change or growth in a system so obviously/relatively uncontrollable. What did Dundee say? “two ticks on the back of a dog”?
I look forward to re-engaging in professional music in my 40s, and doubt nor desire that $professional$ publishing will/should be a part of it.
November 19th, 2008 at 3:07 PM
[...] Topspin » Northwest MusicTech Summit Keynote. CEO of TopSpin talking about the changing music business. [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 3:53 PM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 5:22 PM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 5:38 PM
[...] 音楽ビジネスの危機について、ここTechCrunchでも何度も論じてきた。しかし数週間前の音楽産業カンファレンスでの基調講演で、Topspin CEOのIan Rogersは違う未来を描いて見せた。前Yahoo MusicのトップのRogersは死につつあるのは音楽産業ではないと正しく指摘して見せた。他にも同様のことを言う人はいる。死につつあるのはCDビジネスなのだ。 [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 7:16 PM
[...] it again. At a recent music industry conference, he told the assembled industry execs to basically stop whining about “losses” due to piracy and start making money. While I don’t entirely agree with what business models will [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 7:19 PM
We heard great things about your presentation and had to read it for ourselves. A job well done by Ian and the Topspin Team. Accountability and value add to non-top tier artists is a point of view that is 100% right on. It is good to see artists are able to take command of their content and that Topspin is facilitating that process. Non-exclusivity and not attempting to “take ownership” of the work of the artists is the wave of the future. Exclusivity and controlling copyrights are the past. We look forward to more success stories out of Topspin.
–The AudioMicro Team
November 19th, 2008 at 7:27 PM
[...] by Public Enemy’s Chuck D I’m inspired by a quote in Ian Roger’s presentation at Grammy MusicTech, by PE’s Chuck D. The quote was related to music, here is the one for [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 7:51 PM
[...] MusicTech Summit this week. The keynote makes powerful, factual, and honest points about the present state of the music industry and offers insights into the future. The Topspin model is becoming clearer, and during the [...]
November 19th, 2008 at 9:33 PM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Dear Ian,
Let me just start out by saying what a pleasure it is to read your talk – it is without doubt one of the most articulate and forward-thinking views the music business has heard for a while. It’s quite obvious that you are a huge fan, and therefore think like a fan, and the industry could definitely do with more people like you.
I don’t really know where to start with dissecting your talk, but I agree with you that drastic changes need to be made in the business, but I don’t agree with all of what you are saying. You can pull of figures and stats all day long, but the truth is that these direct to fan projects only work for established artists. Your examples of Eno/Byrne, Nine Inch Nails and even Radiohead were all developed and backed by major labels, as you acknowledged yourself, and now that they are out of contract and able to go it alone they have the reputation that their major label careers permitted them to sell to their fans.
While your examples of ‘unsigned’ artists that are making success for themselves is encouraging, they are in the extreme minority of unsigned artists who can and will do that, as well you know. I could record a track and get it on iTunes tomorrow, but without any exposure it’s just one of seven million other tracks on iTunes. Similar to the 1000 true fans idea, having relatively low levels of success will not create a middle class of artists – more of a low level working class that either just scrape by or, as with real life, have to get a second job just to survive. It’s interesting how you chose to concentrate most on the recorded music sales side of the business, when there are far greater revenue streams available to an artist if they forfeit recorded music sales and concentrate on other areas of the business.
It’s been said that major labels took control of music because they had a monopoly on distribution, back when music was all LPs and 7” singles, but that’s only partly true. The other reason they took control was because they were the ones investing in the artist, putting down money for recording, promoting them using their vast network of contacts, marketing them, guiding them. As a result of this the artist got more exposure than they would have otherwise. The fact that they were getting little or no money beyond their initial advance from recorded music sales was fine; the industry just grew to enable them to maximize other revenue streams. The exposure given to them by all of the major label marketing and promotion enabled them to tour bigger venues, sell more merchandise, drive more money from publishing, get more fans. The distribution element is now an even playing field, but why, now, would an artist choose to forfeit all of the trappings of a health marketing and promotion budget to take a cut of a low margin item from the music that they are selling direct to a much smaller fanbase, if they had the choice? They don’t need the label to get their music out there, but the do need something to differentiate them from the masses of other unsigned bands out there.
I work for a major label and a manager of a relatively big artist recently said to me “the reason we sign with (major labels) is that they give us the creative freedom to do what we do best.” In the context of the discussion what he meant was we’ll take your money up front in exchange for global distribution, administration, marketing and promotion, and a great chunk of cash up front – thanks you very much. Selling direct to your fans is one thing – which they also do – but you still need to have presence in other territories to be a really successful artist, both for touring and recorded music sales.
Now, contrary to the above, I don’t believe that major labels are the future, but nor do I believe that most artists are able to do it themselves and make a success out of it, especially if they are new artists. Basically what you need is a coalition of everyone working together for the good of the artist’s long term career; a transparent joint venture investment in the artist from a company that can offer expertise in all facets of an artist’s development, from live to merchandise to publishing to recorded music. After costs, everything is 50/50, allowing both parties to get the best of both worlds, though nobody is best placed to facilitate this at present. This idea of a major label screwing artists for royalties to cover up for all the ones that don’t succeed is not sustainable or fair for the artist, nor is trying to get their claws into other revenue streams that they are not providing anything towards.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:23 AM
[...] gave a keynote speech at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit and he was saying it like it is- head over to Topspin to read the entire transcript along with the slides. Very informative and this is just a tiny excerpt that caught my [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 5:00 AM
[...] down it doesn’t trouble me in the slightest. Techcrunch have a nice summary of Rogers’ keynote where he points out that while the major labels are crying there is what he refers to as a new [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 5:33 AM
[...] business plan, I came a across a real diamond. Recently, Ian C. Rogers (of TopSpin.com) gave a Keynote Address at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008. In his address, he broke down perfectly the relationship between artists and labels in the new [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 6:24 AM
[...] AQUI, depois vá para [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 8:03 AM
[...] El resumen completo de su presentación puede verse en su blog: http://topspinmedia.com/2008/11/grammy-northwest-musictech-summit-keynote/ [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 9:12 AM
[...] interessant verhaal van Ian Rogers. Zijn transcript kun je hier [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 12:47 PM
[...] durante a conferência GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008 e esta semana ele disponibilizou no blog da TopSpin o texto e os slides. A coisa foi divulgada pelo TechCrunch, o que gerou um rol de comentários [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 2:22 PM
[...] En annan intressant sak som kommit på Boingboing är att det faktiskt finns de inom musikindustrin som verkar ha sett ljuset och argumenterar mot DRM-system, mot att behandla sina kunder som skurkar och att fokusera på musik, inte CD-försäljning. Ian Rogers som bland annat skapat Topspin höll en keynote-presentation väl värd att titta närmare på. [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 2:38 PM
so much good stuff in here Ian. thanks for posting it
November 20th, 2008 at 8:21 PM
[...] Ian Rogers’ delivered the keynote speech at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit Keynote in early November. As you spend the next two days discussing the future of the music business, I’d like to challenge you to consider a different perspective, IMHO the only perspectives that matter, that of the artist and the fan. I see news about the health of the music industry as defined by the stock price of WMG or quarterly earnings of UMG, Sony, and EMI every day. What I don’t see, apart from a few articles on Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails, is an update on how the world is changing from the artist point of view. But I tell you, when I talk to managers and artists they feel it, they feel an ability to take their careers into their own hands, to redefine what success means for them, and that is the emergence of the new music business. Continue reading …. [...]
November 20th, 2008 at 9:12 PM
Awesome, Ian. Thanks for your insight.
I wonder how high the click through rate is from this post to the ‘Jobs at Topspin’ tab.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:52 PM
Excellent presentation! We partner with artists and provide them a vehicle for physical and digital distribution. Were a combination of CD Baby and i-tunes, with the exception that our members get all 100% of the price they set, and can change that price at any time. We are member supported. Sort of like Sam’s Club for indies. Our members love it, we also pay our members $5 for each artist they refer to our site, residual. Some of our members are making money from us simply by helping us serve more members.
We’re one big happy family!
Keith Mohr
President
Indieheaven
http://www.indieheaven.com
November 20th, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Hey Jen Robinson, fancy meeting you in here…
“I wonder how high the click through rate is from this post to the ‘Jobs at Topspin’ tab.”
Well, 17% of visitors to the post ended up on the jobs tab at some point. 3.5% clicked through directly from the post. Less than 20% of jobs viewers ended up exiting the site from there.
We do data.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:06 AM
I think this is the future of music business.I appreciate this post and not just happy i came across this post.its inspiring and gives an insight on the new emerging industrY1.thanks ian!
November 21st, 2008 at 8:38 AM
Thanks for the data, Adam! Ask and ye shall receive.
November 21st, 2008 at 8:42 AM
[...] Ian Rogers, CEO of Topspin and former head of Yahoo Music, gave the keynote address recently at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008. In his speech, Rogers explains the current state of the music business as he see it. [...]
November 21st, 2008 at 10:10 AM
Ian;
I always enjoy your talks and posts about what’s happening in music, but I must say, this presentation came across as really light. All of this thinking has been in play for several years now, and as such your conclusions are blindingly obvious. I was hoping for more.
For example: saying “let’s focus on the relationship between artists and fans” isn’t enough. That issue has been bandied about for years. Developing artists understand that they need to do this, but they don’t know where to start. What did Joe Purdy actually do to connect with his fans? For that matter, what will Topspin do to connect with consumers?
These examples need to be drilled into so we understand what’s really going on, what’s working and what isn’t. The fact that you site artists that break the paradigm is a good thing; but it’s a drag that you provide little or no information about the cause, NOT just the effect, is a drag.
You’re in a unique position to observe this stuff from the inside, without being viewed as old school by artists or a thief by labels. I’d love to see less talk about the labels, and dying business models, and more about the tangible, effective methods that are truly transforming the business. This presentation was a little too “Chinese food” for me.
November 21st, 2008 at 2:56 PM
Great speech, Ian.
November 22nd, 2008 at 10:26 AM
[...] 几个月没去豆瓣了。那儿变化很大。相册功能使豆瓣失去了Minimalism的特点。当然这制造了很多流量。Google广告将会产生良好的现金流，不知道阿北是不是受到了投资人的压力。而最让我激动的是artist这个功能。有人会说，这有什么，不过是模仿MySpace罢了。可是他们不了解中美唱片业之间的区别。第一，音乐家数量不同。用一个词你就可以感受到区别，这个词是cover，中文叫翻唱。大体上当你在youtube搜索cover这个词就会看到一堆抱着guitar或者keyboard的年轻人，他们有翻唱的能力，也有songwriting的能力。而你在youku搜索翻唱这个词的时候，就会见到一群年轻人用卡拉ok方式录制的视频，没有恶意，我觉得他们唱的很好，但这样的创作不了更多的价值。口水歌每个人都能唱，而创作一首脍炙人口的歌曲却很难。第二，美国有大量的独立厂牌，中国发张唱片还需要审批。在言论受到管制的国度里，你将很少会有机会发行完全展现创作者能力的唱片。因为好的歌词往往是极端的、暴力的、充满色情色彩的、糜烂的、反世俗的，又或者在意识形态上是消解和”反动”的。美国有大量的label，不管你是教会音乐，是粗口严重的rap甚至是3K党的音乐专辑都可以发行，这占领了唱片市场的很大份额。说到这里，你可能又会问，MySpace到底创造了什么价值呢。说完了这个，我要再说说前不久在格莱美音乐技术大会上的主题演讲。做演讲的哥们叫Ian Rogers。他曾经是winamp创业团队的一员，不知道多少人还记得这个软件了，此后他去了yahoo，在那儿做雅虎音乐总监，目前正在创业。首先我们要知道一个数据，去年唱片业统计，P2P音乐盗版总价值达到了690亿。虽然道德感极强的美国人里仍然有许多通过itunes买音乐，但这仅是杯水车薪。另外一个问题是，人们在itunes上买歌是一首一首买的，对唱片公司来说，这比卖碟赚的少。所以唱片业不甘心输给新媒体和盗版，他们通过了一些法律手段使napster倒闭，最近的一个受害者是我个人非常喜欢的pandora.com，包括数字版权技术这些都是唱片业为了维持自己的地位而搞出来的方式。但是他们终究打不败P2P。并且仍然为此付出代价。不管你是独立厂牌还是大众厂牌，没有一个例外。Ian提出的观点是，让那些唱片公司死去。因为没有人会在乎CD，除了少数发烧友。而目前大部分利润都归唱片公司这种模式将终结。在这条利益链上只有，音乐家-营销渠道-用户。原有的利润一部分让给音乐家、一部分让给营销渠道、一部分给用户。他举了brian eno网络发行的例子，和另一个通过itunes赚到百万美元歌手的例子来论证自己的观点。到了这里，就非常清楚了。谁控制了音乐界和用户的之间的渠道，谁就将赚取本来属于唱片商的部分利润。而MySpace和Douban的artist就是这个渠道。并且Douban artist的发展将比MySpace更好。我前面论述的中美之间唱片业的差别。1.音乐家数量不同。这将使豆瓣从一开始就聚集几乎所有优秀的独立歌手和作者来。2.美国有大量的独立厂牌，中国发张唱片还需要审批。中国的音乐将直接跳过独立厂牌的阶段进入网络发行。这将成为豆瓣的优势而非劣势。至于将来的发展，豆瓣应该积极的介入音乐网络发行，确定和艺术家之间的分成模式，而非仅仅把artist当作音乐家的宣传平台，当然，这得需要有优秀的独立音乐人，和足够成熟的用户，并且他们习惯了1元一首歌这样的定价模式。另外，广电总局的态度也会是关键因素。至于你担心是不是这些音乐太过小众，那么我告诉你，就如同多年前非常地下的陈绮贞和雷光夏，如今他们也都相当主流了。别忘了beyond也是一家地下乐队。一点粗浅的看法。 [...]
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:48 PM
[...] and I almost forgot, I finally posted my keynote presentation from the Grammy Northwest MusicTech Summit. I admit I’m surprised at the amount of interest it received, but I appreciate everyone [...]
November 22nd, 2008 at 6:27 PM
[...] a great post from Echo’s Mark Montgomery following the GRAMMY MusicTech Summit we both attended in Seattle a few weeks ago. Marko does a great job laying out the basic toolset [...]
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:14 AM
[...] lien vers cette présentation [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 9:15 AM
[...] http://topspinmedia.com/2008/11/grammy-northwest-musictech-summit-keynote/ (via RMS) The How to make a living as an independent type designer by David Crossland, except the quotations and unless otherwise expressly stated, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. November 24, 2008 | Filed Under MA Typeface Design [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 10:22 AM
[...] likely the most interesting bit of news came from Topspin CEO Ian Rogers who presented at the Grammy Northwest MusicTech Summit. As always with Ian, a very smart synopsis of where the business is at currently, and some nice [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 12:53 PM
[...] http://topspinmedia.com/2008/11/grammy-northwest-musictech-summit-keynote/#comments [...]
November 25th, 2008 at 3:22 AM
[...] the whole presentation. This time I wrote it hoping that you'll find it interesting enough to click here and read the [...]
November 25th, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I got this blog from a friend at one of the biggest booking agencies in the world, at which I used to work at. I’ve worn the hat of musician, engineer, producer, promoter, publicist, agent, and recently manager. I’m not posting to talk about myself, but I say all these things because my journey into the biz started as a FAN. I’m still a huge fan today, of artist that I’m directly involved with and those that I have no ties to and that is what keeps my optimism and hope for the industry up.
I think there’s alot of great points Ian said in the speech, but what it comes down to is the artist as an underdog…because lets face it…99% of working artist today are just that. 99% will never be shot into the stratosphere of superstardom like Michael Jackson or Elvis. If they’re lucky, they’ll be able to buy a house and make 6 figures like Joe Purdy, but Joe’s also been working his ass off for 10 years, and for that I commend him.
The one thing I’ve seen in the past 5 years with the explosion of myspace pages, garage band, and digital cameras is this attitude of “I’ve got music up, decent pics…etc, why aren’t I HUGE?” It’s this attitude that kills me as a manager. We’re now in an age, and Ian subtly said it in the speech, where real success will come from those that keep there head down, stay focused on their art, and work hard. And then they do the exact same thing the next day, except one thing changes…they work HARDER. I truly believe that if you have something truly original to offer, then there’s no way that you won’t gain respect and a fan base.
The other things is that some people posted comments saying, “yeah Ian, but how do we…the artist ‘underdog’ set ourselves apart from everyone else?” BY DOING SOMETHING ORIGINAL. The two artist I work for (Space Capone & Mikky Ekko) are doing just that, and even though they are just getting started, I truly believe its their originality, work ethic, and creative thinking that will set them apart.
Quit comparing yourself to others and get to work. We’re in the best possible spot to be as ‘underdogs’. Thanks Ian.
November 28th, 2008 at 11:55 AM
[...] durante a conferência GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008 e esta semana ele disponibilizou no blog da TopSpin o texto e os slides. A coisa foi divulgada pelo TechCrunch, o que gerou um rol de comentários [...]
November 29th, 2008 at 8:17 AM
[...] div.Section1 {page:Section1;} –> A few weeks ago, quotes from Ian Rogers’ keynote at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit 2008 sprouted up all over the web. One of my favorites As [...]
November 30th, 2008 at 5:25 AM
[...] parlant de l’industrie de la musique et du CD allez lire la keynote sur le futur de l’industrie musicale de Ian Rogers (un ancien de Winamp puis Yahoo Music …) dont l’illustration ci dessus [...]
December 1st, 2008 at 2:00 PM
Dear Ian,
It’s not very often that I get to feel completely validated as an entrepreneur. Seems unless you’ve created the next Google that people question the value of what you are up to. Over the past 5 years, there have been countless times I’ve said these things (nearly verbatim) as I explained to industry people and investors what the landscape will be in the new music business and therefore why the market needs companies such as Topspin and the one I’ve been building. Often I was met with complacent skepticism and even worse, indifference.
Then something dawned on me. Those that don’t see the reality around them quickly become irrelevant.
So I and a few others kept doing what we were doing, and not giving a shit who in the industry paid attention or not, as long as the artists dug what was going on and fans continued benefiting. Today, we have a business that thrives because thousands of artists make a better living and there is a real middle class that is evolving.
I am happy to live (or die) by the measure of value I can provide to that artist/fan equation. It is the one market dynamic that will never change.
Thank you for being a such a clear voice in the conversation. As I encounter others who don’t get what we do and why, I’ll simply point them to your keynote speech, and tell them that it’s irrelevant whether or not they understand.
Patrick Faucher
CEO & Chief Artist Advocate
Nimbit, Inc.
December 2nd, 2008 at 5:39 PM
[...] For the full text, click here. [...]
December 3rd, 2008 at 6:47 PM
[...] echoes that of Topspin Media. For some great insight, check out Topspin’s CEO talking here. I particularly liked [...]
December 15th, 2008 at 2:21 PM
[...] This article is my fave so far. More to be added as I find them. [...]
December 18th, 2008 at 3:05 PM
[...] Ian C Rogers - Middle Class of Artists Seth Godin - Tribes Bruce Houghton - Hypebot, MidemNet (Free Music Only Has Value…) Bob [...]
December 19th, 2008 at 1:27 PM
This article / presentation is absolutely fantastic. I couldn’t agree more with what Ian says, but that’s not the reason i enjoyed it. He provides strong evidence for his thinking, and taught me a few things too.
“What I don’t see, apart from a few articles on Radiohead and Nine Inch Nails, is an update on how the world is changing from the artist point of view. But I tell you, when I talk to managers and artists they feel it, they feel an ability to take their careers into their own hands, to redefine what success means for them, and that is the emergence of the new music business.”
…sums up exactly what I’m trying to do; here (http://leejarvis.blogspot.com/2008/10/getting-break.html), here (http://leejarvis.blogspot.com/2008/11/7-reasons-to-go-indie.html) and here (http://leejarvis.blogspot.com/) in general.
December 19th, 2008 at 3:40 PM
[...] and brands. This is clearly part of the future. Here are some comments from Ian and a link to his presentation to The Recording Academy at the GRAMMY Northwest MusicTech Summit [...]
December 21st, 2008 at 5:48 PM
[...] written a lot about the death of the recorded music business, but in a keynote address to a music industry conference a couple weeks ago Topspin CEO Ian Rogers sketches out a different [...]
December 28th, 2008 at 8:38 PM
[...] employer, Topspin, has been nominated for a Crunchie award for “Best New Startup of [...]
January 1st, 2009 at 8:46 PM
[...] Rogers, the CEO of Topspin, got a lot of press coverage with his keynote speech where he stated he doesn’t care about the death of CDs. Musicians are finding audiences and [...]